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  This is the actual transcript of that  meeting.  Easter reveals that
research done by the CFC reveals an additional 10 million guns in
Canada  beyond what they`ve been lying about all along as we know on the CFC
website. It directly discredits/debunks figures in Wendy`s latest Crap.

July 16, 2003

A group of 6 men have traveled over the nation of Canada, to protest
the invasive and illegal firearms act, Bill C-68.

They arrived in Prince Edward Island, which was Solicitor General Wayne
Easter's riding.

It was obvious that a meeting or at the least a protest in front of his
constituency, office in Hunter River, would be an excellent

A phone call was made and plans were put in place to do just that. Then
luck hit us in the face, when we were told that Mr. Easter would meet
with our delegation in that office.

The following is an exact transcription of the conversation between Mr.
Easter and his clerk assistant and the 6 men present in his office. The
Press was barred from attendance.

After seating arrangements and introductions were made, the focus of
the discussion was as follows:

JIM TURNBULL: Well, Mr. Easter, the first thing, so we don't have to
take up so much of your time, you have in front of you that yellow sheet of
paper which is our letter to you, I'm sure you're familiar with it because
we've sent it to you many times..

(an office worker points out there was a reporter present and he is
asked to leave)

WAYNE EASTER: Anyway, yes, I'm familiar with your letter

TURNBULL: We'd like to discuss that with you. We believe that the facts
that we outlined in that letter are to be true. We also, that's the first
thing we want to discuss and the second thing we'd like to discuss with
you, sir, is the, our affidavits regarding the, regarding our position
on licensing and registration and you have those affidavits under there.
The thing we'd like to discuss with you today, you may be under the
impression the impression that we may be somewhat frivolous and, and we're making
some stunts out of this thing and we'd like to impress upon you the fact
that we aren't and that we're pretty serious Canadian citizens and I think
what we'd like to do, is somehow today is get a, I'd like to feel you out
and just find out where you're coming from. I think you're a, my belief is
that you're an honorable gentleman and I'd like you believing when we leave
here that there are 7 honorable people sitting in front of you, with some
very, very definite thoughts regarding the firearms act.
So, given that, I maybe we can discuss that.

EASTER: Let's, uh let's go backward on that, if we can. The, uh on the
uh, Yeah, I believe you're uh you're serious. I'm a former farm leader,
myself. NFU and there's not a province in the country that I haven't been
involved in some kind of demonstration myself over farm rights and so I very
firmly believe that you've the right to legitimately demonstrate and make your
point within the law. I've a responsibility, I'm the law enforcement type, certainly, so I
can't advocate anybody break the law, but I know in my previous role I
stretched the law pretty well. There's a, there's a, you from your perspective in
making your point of view known, you've the right to try and I guess
and advocate your point of view to change policy in the country the way you
want to see it changed. And that's a legitimate right and a legitimate
position to take, in my point of view. There's always 2 sides, and
usually more than 2 sides to the story. I've been in this gun control fight
from the very beginning, and I don't mind saying that I think if we'd

uv managed to get what rural caucus wanted when we started in 19 uh,
whenever it was '65, over the original bill C-68, we still wouldn't be
fighting over this today. But, from my position, as a member of a, on
the one hand of Liberal party, and now as a minister, you have your fights,
you lose them, you win some, you lose some, you go with the majority or
you part ways.

In April, and there's no question, if there's ever a program that had
some serious flaws in it and there's still a number that need to be fixed
yet, and mismanagement, I've admitted that up front. What I want to try and
do now, and we've got the program running relatively smoothly, there's
still some bumps in the road, I want to see the program managed efficiently
and I want it to work for those in the terms of the, the terms of uh, the
vast majority of people in Canada, and I've done some independent polls, do
support. And a mass, uh a good majority of people, I think, don't
understand guns as probably you or I do, being from my perspective, uh,
hunting is very much legitimate, trap shooting, sports shooting, having
a gun on a farm, a long gun or any other gun that's legal is legitimate.
I mean I've often had to shoot raccoons and skunks, and I'm not a hunter
cause we've got nothing to hunt around here, the biggest our animal is a fox.
In any event the majority of people support the registration of guns and I
want to see it work for both sides, so that those who support it and those
that still got some concerns about it, and I want to try and address those
concerns as best I can, but I can tell you this, I can, I cannot back
down on the registry because there's not, there's certainly isn't the
support to do that and I have an obligation to basically support the registry and
make it work for everyone.

TURNBULL: I have very little reason to trust the figures that are put
out by the Federal Government. I have very little reason because I've seen,
in fact, I've seen places where they've fudged numbers where we can't get
information. I would like to say to you, Sir, the urban population of
three major centers, being Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal are certainly
looking at registration as a good thing. But, I want to tell you, that from
our, from your firearms owners perspective, and that's where I come from,
even those that have registered their firearms, are not happy with
registration. We are not happy with registration. I don't know where this fight is
going to go, but I can tell ya, I can tell ya, Sir, that the numbers are bad,
and I believe that you think, and I believe that you really believe this,
that 80% of the firearms in Canada are registered. I want to tell you, Sir,
that I don't think that you have 30% of them registered. I think you've got
a bigger, an explosively bigger number of people who have not registered
and are not licensed than what you are aware of, and that's what we find,
in the field out there, as we are traveling, that's exactly what we find. We
think that registration is a bad thing. I don't know how we're going to
do it, I have no idea how we're gonna do it, but I want to tell you
something, I'm nearly 70 years old and a Korean War vet, and I believe that
registration is going to lead to confiscation.

Your figures alone say that you have confiscated over 56,000 firearms.
Those 56,000 firearms, out of them, let's say that 10% of them had to
be confiscated, and I can tell you that there a whole bunch, that leaves
46,000 that you had no business putting your hands on, and registration means
confiscation, it has anywhere that it's ever been implemented in the
world. I understand what your position is, I know as a Liberal Cabinet
minister what the position is that you have to take on this. What I am
trying to impress upon you today, I think, is the fact that you may be
wrong. Your friends in the Liberal Cabinet just may be very wrong on
this one, and I, and we don't have any representation so we can't come out.
Outside of civil disobedience we have no way of getting your ear. I've
wrote you letters, I've sent Prime Minister letters, we get absolutely
no response, so it's up to the firearm community, and there are a lot of
firearm people sitting back wondering just how Turnbull, Hudson and his
troop are going to do on this cross-Canada tour. We don't have many
kind things to say about the Liberal government.

EASTER: That's your right

TURNBULL: Mr. Easter, it is our right, but we shouldn't have to do
that. We should not have to, we should not have to stand on street corners
when it 's 100 above and make these kind of points. There should be somebody
who represents us that says that these are the kind of points. Now, what
I'm gonna do Mr. Easter, and in all fairness, I'm going to shut up and I
want you to listen to the rest of my cohorts here, the rest of my gang, as I
call them. I'd like you to listen, starting with Mr. Hudson and listen to
their points of view, if you will please. Ed?

EASTER: No, I'm willing to, uh, willing to listen. On the numbers just
before you go, on the numbers, I've avoided the numbers game. I know
what the firearms center puts out, they're putting out as many as 90% are
registered. I think, I personally think that's high, and quite, and I
mean the numbers vary by about between, by about between

TURNBULL: by about 60 % switch

EASTER: they're on the downside to what the, uh, to what an independent
analysis, done by the Canadians Firearms Center before my time, saying
that there's a difference of about 10 million, so whether they are right or
wrong, I just have to work on that, I'm not gonna get caught up on the
numbers, and uh, and uh hope that we continue to, to register, for
people to register, and there's roughly about 500 registrations coming in a day,
now, but anyway go ahead.

ED HUDSON: Caroll, I want you to keep me brief. With your elbow, just
hit me in the crotch if I take too long. Mr. Easter, I would like to
present you with a video. I made that video with Joe Gingrich and Jack Wilson,
it's 3 minutes long, it's not high quality but it does make a point. These 2
gentlemen had a firearm that was functional. I took a picture of them
shooting it. Joe Gringrich sells it in the video to Jack Wilson. They
both make a very clear statement, and they can say it in their own words in
a moment, but they state clearly and plainly on the film they own
firearms. That firearm is not registered. Jack Wilson reads off the serial number
so that you can call the CFC and verify that that Remington 870 Express
featured in there is not registered, has never been registered and as
Jack Wilson says will never be registered.

The point I want to make, and Caroll, stop me in a moment, it doesn't
matter what the massive numbers of Canadians, if there is a massive
number of Canadians that support this Firearms Act, it's an unjust law, it
violates my personal rights and freedoms that are guaranteed by the
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and I will personally ask you to have me
arrested, charged here in Prince Edward Island so that I can get this
law before the courts. This is our eighth provincial capitol, (I realize
that I 'm not in the capitol now) but, this is our eighth provincial capitol
and we have been begging the government to arrest us. Jim Turnbull and this
group was in Ottawa the first of January and the police charged us with
having a firearm at a public meeting. Small piece of metal, receiver, no barrel,
no firing pin, no bolt. They knew what we were going to do because we told
them ahead of time what we were going to do. They have not yet charged
us under the Firearms Act. We are going to continue this until we get
charged, until we get arrested and charged under section 91 and section 92 so
that we can challenge this in court.

It is our duty as a citizen to challenge this law. This law violates
our Canadian Charter rights and we think we can prove that in court and we
also think, strongly enough to go to jail over it, that you, representing
the government, cannot prove that the law works.

JOE GINGRICH: And you cannot prove that it is Constitutional or
democratic or effective.

TURNBULL: You certainly can't, it certainly not cost effective, Mr.
Easter, this boondoggle, the word which came out of the house, this boondoggle
is certainly not cost effective. And I would think that especially looking
at the history of your predecessor would make you say cost effectiveness
is certainly something you should be interested in. Uh, Mr. Montague.

BRUCE MONTAGUE: Only one point I'd really want to address, is uh, I
kind of took this as you opening dialogue with us. You were quoted in the
newspaper last week as, uh, with a quote that went something like this: "that I
know the difference between a publicity stunt and a threat to public safety"

Jim touched earlier that this isn't a publicity stunt, that we are quite
serious about what we're doing. I agree with you that I don't think we
are a threat to public safety, but the law says we are. We are obviously in
violation of the criminal code. Why, why don't you use this law? I've
really puzzled this as to why you've got a billion dollar law, but I
buy a new car, I want to take it for a spin around the block. Why aren't you
taking it for a spin around the block? I'm really puzzled. You're
saying if I call something a publicity stunt, it is a defense against a crime?
That seems to be what you are trying to tell me.

EASTER: No, I didn't say, uh, what I said was the police, it's not up
to me, uh it's not up to me to charge people the laws there. And it's up
to the, uh, whether it's the police in the local jurisdiction or whether
it's RCMP, or whether it's the Toronto city police;

MONTAGUE: But, they're all told from above, that they cannot charge us.

EASTER: No, they're not told that they cannot, it is their discretion.

MONTAGUE: That's what they tell us

EASTER: Their discretion whether or not they charge, they haven't be
told, certainly not by me, uh , no to uh not to charge anyone. The, uh,
they've been uh, told uh, or not told as such, but, uh they are to use police
discretion, ah in terms of how they basically, how they handle any of
the laws, uh and this one is no different. So I think it depends on the
activity that one is involved in whether or not, and whether or not
they'll lay charges.

MONTAGUE: So not having a registered gun is not a threat to public

EASTER: UH, it e uh, it I mean, registration is ur, well it, I've said
a number of times myself that it is not our intent to make criminals out
of what I certainly consider and think a lot of us do, legitimate gun
owners, hunters, trap shooters, et cetera, ah, you can be absolutely assured
that if some of the criminal element has an unregistered gun out there,
charges are going to be laid, no question about it. And in fact, the, the
registry has been helpful at the national level enforcement support team. Out of
357 investigations, I think it was, in April that they were involved in,
and it is helpful

MONTAGUE: (unable to decipher)

EASTER: Yeah, I know. But, it is helpful from that perspective.

MONTAGUE: I'm trying to look at the basic principles here of what's
going on. And you're trying to say that we are not considered dangerous to
the public, 'cause we're not criminals. Why don't you try and see if we can
get this thing amended? And just say only criminals have to register their
guns? I think that would work quite well.

EASTER: (laughing) I don't that's, uh, but go ahead, sorry, I don't
want to interrupt you

MONTAGUE: Actually your statement, can I get that in writing so that I
can show it to the next officer that says he is not allowed to arrest us?

EASTER: No, I didn't say he's not allowed to uh, he's not allowed to

MONTAGUE: No, you said he is allowed to that are no orders from above
him saying

EASTER: No, I'm saying that there are no orders from above, I mean, I
can' t, my uh, my, one of the problems and it is a difficult area as the
solicitor general I am responsible for the RCMP


EASTER: but I cannot direct, as such, the RCMP

MONTAGUE: Well, that's what they tell us, too, that on the sly, you,
it's not done officially, it's done unofficially. That they can't do it.
They tell us that they can't touch us. We're getting spurious charges

EASTER: I can tell, I can, I can honestly say to you that I never, and
the person I meet with, which is the commissioner of the RCMP, and some
senior officials in the RCMP, I can honestly tell you that I have never said
to him uh, or any of their people on how to uh, on whether to or whether not
to uh, charge people on uh, uh, under the firearms act. All I, uh and what
the statements I've made have been fairly public and it is up to police
discretion and I've never directed the RCMP and I guess that's where my
responsibility lies one way or the other. Anyway, sorry

JACK WILSON: You know, my concern is that it is such a bad law that it
creates disrespect for the law

GINGRICH: and it's unconstitutional.

WILSON: and you talk about discretion and most police officers do use
discretion during their investigations but it seems like this law here
you have incidents arising where there

(you need to use the washroom?.. asked of Montague by unnamed person

MONTAGUE: No, I'm sorry, I just have a hard time stomaching you lying
to me.

EASTER: OK, OK I'm not lying to you

MONTAGUE: So there you are Al. You (addressing Mr. Easter) would have a
hard time passing a police interrogation, where you keep looking down
and trying to evade a direct answer or

EASTER: Go ahead, sir.

WILSON: I've never in my life had occasion to fear police. My Father
was a police officer, and a couple of uncles. I've never had any trouble, I
could always, I knew .. I've never had any reason to distrust the police.

TURNBULL: That's a very telling fact, Mr. Easter, especially from the
area that I'm in. I'd like to start with I'd like to apologize for my, my

EASTER: No, no that's alright, I understand.

TURNBULL: But, he is very very, he is certainly dedicated to the cause
and he has some strong feelings.

EASTER: Fine, I'm not bothered by that. I understand how he feels.

TURNBULL: You know, that's the part that worries me, like I have a
family, I have children, grandchildren and great grandchildren and when
I can see the reputation of the RCMP going down the toilet because of
this spurious law, it scares me. Cause when I was a kid, I was lead to
believe and I know.I can remember the RCMP's name. he came by horseback into
our farm and we would put him up for the night. And the respect that was
given that man was absolutely unreal. But, here we have today, and you know,
I wouldn't ask, I would not ask an RCMP into my home under the most dire
circumstances. A blizzard, and him on foot, I would not ask him in
because the last time that it happened, there was a gun leaning against the
kitchen door, and the man lost 35 firearms and they were back in 10 days with
your NWEST, and I think they're the KGB of Canada, and they came in and
broke down doors and took 35 firearms and when they did an audit on those
firearms, Sir, it said that everyone of those firearms were in good
condition, capable of killing someone. You know, a statement like that

EASTER: What, what what happened to the uh individual?

TURNBULL: What happened to the individual? He was barred from his home
and a search warrant was given to his 16-year-old son. He was barred from
the home until they tore down his door, tore down the doors off the gun
cabinet, tore the ceiling down off the gun room, and totally demolished his
room, and they did find firearms that were not stored properly, but his door was
locked, when they came. If we can't lock our doors, and if that is not
solid good storage, something is wrong. Mr. Easter, believe me, and I'm
begging you, your legislation is bad.

Mr. Muir.

ALISTER MUIR: Mr. Easter, you mentioned the urban- rural conflict in
your own party about this after the cost came out, the public opinion polls
were that they were no longer in support of the firearms act, I believe it
was about 56%.

Seven of the provinces will not prosecute, 66% of the population, that

amounts to.

That enough for a constitutional change. Considering the difficulties

the Liberal party has with the west, the nature of the Conservative
strength in the east, at this point this matter is contributing to divisions in the
country, that haven't been here before or amplifying divisions that
were already there. You see, I've seen sentiments in the west for stronger
activities against these matters and I've seen people, who normally,
again as these gentlemen have said, had trust in the police that no longer
trust them. This is not, this country is large, complex, this is not
nation-building this is ripping the nation apart.. This gun law pits
urban against rural, it pits the east against the west, with the center in
the middle. It's not a healthy situation, it's, as a citizen I cannot allow
a country that my father fought for in a war to suffer this abuse. And I
have to say that at some point we're going to have to arrive at a decision
here of whether the safety components were always there. They were there in
Kim Campbell's bill, the safe storage and so on, the background checks of
the FAC were there, that I have a wife and 3 children, I have to be as
concerned about public safety as the next person is. But the firearms act, the
only new things in it, substantial things, are licensing and registration.
And we have to ask ourselves, with the faulty information that it has in
the data base, with the questionable number of people that are in the data
base, is it worth the damage it does to this nation to continue on with this

EASTER: You, you do you have a problem with the licensing aspect, too?

TURNBULL: Yes, very definitely.

MUIR: the licensing itself it, it's basically, what the license does,
is that it's taken what was previously a right and turned it into a
privilege. It was a right, 200 years ago, when the trappers settled this land,
when firearms, at the turn of the century they used different tools, but at
the times that firearms arrived they used firearms. We have a history of
firearms use, we have a tradition of, culture of firearms use, that was
not restricted by license, that was an activity that was a right, You, by
making it a license, you've made it into a privilege. But, the only
thing you have achieved by that is you, you've determined if somebody is a
threat to public safety or not and the FAC has already done that, so the
necessity of a license is just not there.

TURNBULL: It's redundant.

EASTER: Are any of you from Saskatchewan?


EASTER: Linda, Linda Haverstock fought this issue, pretty hard, as you
probably know and she's the lieutenant governor now, but she was
Liberal leader, up there in Lincoln, and Linda were friends from way back, and
she fought this issue very, very hard in Ottawa. I would agree with you on
the divisions, she actually ended up being treated like dirt, by people
shouldn' t have treated her that way. She, uh, tried to make the points on, on,
on this issue.when, and we did get decimated in Saskatchewan, with this
issue as a result , but uh, in any event I know where you're coming from on

MUIR: What I am saying here is, I realize it's important for your party
to get elected, but what I'm saying here is the country is more important
than the party that's elected. And my concerns are with the divisions in
this country, when I sit here in the east, from Nova Scotia, and I hear
about the people in the west, it's not "them damn Ontarians", it's the people in
the west. And we've invented a culture of division in this country, we've
seen it Quebec, and we're seeing it in eastern Canada and now our 2
solitudes have turned into 4 solitudes. You have voter blocks that were never
there or you have the risk of the situation we have in Italy, or the
situation we have in Israel, where of these fragmented parties all over the place
and there's little small groups clamoring in the provinces, the level of
dissatisfaction across the county, the undercurrents, they're all
there. I' ve seen them as we've moved across the country, these undercurrents are
all there and by playing off one region against another, by playing off
east against the west, by playing off urban against rural the government is
continuing to fester these undercurrents.

TURNBULL: There's uh, one other thing I'd like to touch on Mr. Easter,
and you've been so kind to give us this time. When Mr. Hudson and I were
arrested in Ottawa in January one of the conditions on my release from
jail when I wouldn't accept bail, I wouldn't pay bail, I wasn't about to pay
a fine, I wasn't. I just said, "lock me back up", and they said, "no,
we're putting you out", and I said, "no, I'm not going to agree to any
conditions", but the conditions that were placed on me were ultimately: Number 1,
I' m not allowed to speak to anybody regarding the firearms act in Canada.
Now, sir, by uh by uh, by association you're as guilty as I am, because
I am here, and I am disobeying that court order.

The next one was that I couldn't go to the province of Ontario except
to see my lawyer or a judge. Now, sir, that's my right of mobility, that means
they have blocked me from Eastern Canada, that means that uh, that my
right of association, my right of mobility and my right of freedom of speech
have been sullied, and so sincerely hampered that you have tried to castrate
me, and Sir, I'm telling you, I'm asking you to take a look at that, and
that is what the firearms act has done.

You say that registration of firearms is a good thing, Sir. The only
thing I am fighting is the licensing and registration of firearms. Why cannot
I speak to my cohorts anywhere in Canada regarding the firearms issue?
You said, Sir, that I have a right to protest and there was no harm in me.
The RCMP knew a long time before we got to Ottawa that we were absolutely
harmless. We were absolutely. There was no intention on the part of any
of us to do any harm to anyone, and yet those are the conditions of my
release. And that, Sir, is your firearms act.

EASTER: The uh, the uh, conditions on your release were uh one

TURNBULL: to be of good

EASTER: that you, uh, that you uh, not talk about the uh the uh

TURNBULL: The firearms issue anywhere in Canada

EASTER: and uh two uh that you not talk to someone in Ontario

TURNBULL: But, I couldn't go to the province of Ontario, except to see
a lawyer or go to court. And I guess what I'm saying to you, Mr. Easter,
that a man who has never been in front of a judge in his life, had 2
speeding tickets, that was the worst thing to my name, and fought for this
country in the Korean War, and I'm 70 years old, and you're doing that to a
Canadian citizen because of your goddam piece of paper beside a firearm? Sir,
I'm telling you, this is a bad law !

GINGRICH: You said it to the hilt. I feel like tyranny is on us.

TURNBULL: You, and the liberal government, sir, are treating us
terrible. And I don't know how else. The prime minister won't see us, mainly
because I don't really want to see him, because I don't think, I have a lot of
respect for you, I have absolutely none for the prime minister, and I
don't have a whole lot more for who I see is going to be his predecessor. His
predecessor is a man who pays taxes to the Bahamas for his ships, you
know, and has for years.

EASTER: On the gun control issue, on the uh, on the uh, on the gun
control issue, and Paul Martin. I've talked to Paul on this a number of times
and uh, he uh, in fairness to him, I mean you can have your opinions on
the, on the ship end, But in fairness to him, I think we're uh we're all grappling with uh, I
certainly know I am, uh and I know in the discussions I've had with
him, is uh, we're, we're trying to figure out uh how we can make this system
work without, uh, without disharmony, I mean I think if you go back,
and uh, and uh go over it.

TURNBULL: Mr. Easter,

EASTER: that it would be uh, that it would be uh it, it would be done

TURNBULL: Mr Easter, sir, you and I in a room with the door locked, in
a half an hour (hitting the desk with open palm)


EASTER: (continuing) to uh, to uh, the fact of the matter we are here,
you know we gotta try and I uh, I uh, as I said in the beginning I want to
try and find a way to make this to make this system work for, for
everyone, and you can't be all things to all people. UH we are doing
some, some uh, some consultations uh over the summer, the Canadian Firearms
Center is. We're looking at some of the more minor things, I uh I I know the
registration law at the end of the day stays and that's your biggest
sticking point, that amongst other things, uh so uh so it's a you know,
anyway I I uh I hear what you're saying and I uh I've made both of your
points and I uh will also talk to my people about your points. I mean,
I like to hear you points directly. Uh, uh I like to hear your concerns
directly uh, I've some responsibility to uphold as well, uh, but uh,
certainly at at this time uh the law is the law. I don't know what we
can tweak on it as far as

MUIR: I'm really sorry for interrupting Jim, here, because he was going
to say that he could sit down with you for half an hour and figure how to
straighten this out. Now, what I'm trying to find out from you is Mr.
Martin's position and you're giving me his position is the same as
yours that license and registration is here to stay.

EASTER: I like on that, uh on that you'd have to ask Mr. Martin
directly, I mean I uh talked to uh talked to uh Paul about this issue and he's
basically asked me what can be done to uh make this to make this system work in a
way that's uh that's more acceptable to uh to to everyone and one of the
problems in all honesty with you, and one of the problems is that you
try to make changes on one side, I mean if I , if we try and accommodate your
concerns, uh then instead of you demonstrating outside my office, it's
gonna be somebody else demonstrating outside my office and on this one it's
uh it in all honesty with you, is hard to find uh balance uh that that
everyone's reasonably comfortable and I know you're not comfortable with it and I
understand that and I understand where you're coming from, but uh if
you had, if you were to uh I've got another commitment, but if you had, uh
you said if you had a half an hour you'd tell me how to fix this system
from your perspective.

TURNBULL: No sir, no sir

EASTER: I'm not saying I'm gonna do it, but uh but in your perspective
how would you fix this system.

TURNBULL: You and I would sit down sir, and we would satisfy the
firearms community. And our firearms are no more dangerous than a chainsaw nor a
hunting knife nor an axe and we would just come back to the conclusion
that our firearms are personal property and to get out of it and to make the
uh, to back to the way we had it. Somebody uses a firearms in a wrong
manner, the man should never have a firearm, he should go to jail, goes to jail
for a long time. We need education, safe storage, safe handling, and safe
transportation and that's all we need.

(long silence)

Now, gentlemen is there any other points? Al ?

HUDSON: It's time, we need to go.


EASTER: Anyway, sorry I was late uh

TURNBULL: That's OK, sorry we didn't give you better notice, but I'll
be very honest with you, I'll be very honest with you Wayne, I didn't
think you'd meet with us.

EASTER: Oh, no Oh no, I'll think about what you said, you can be
assured that I'll think about what you said, and I'll talk to others about it
uh, because uh I mean as I go across the country I try and stop into some
of the gun shops to see what kinds of problems they're having.

TURNBULL: Well, they're , the gentlemen

EASTER: They're, they're they're having .less but they're , I was in
one in Regina and I can' think of, even if you said it, I don't think I'd
remember it.

But I went in there and this poor guy is he's got 2 phones running, you
know and he's trying to do his business and he's all day on about 2 phones
uh over simple things that shouldn't take, in my view, 5 minutes to fix

TURNBULL: This man here is a firearms, a gunsmith that the federal
government put out of business. That is why he is so mad, he's got a
wife that just laid off, they've got children in university and I don't
blame that man.

EASTER: No, you can't blame him

TURNBULL: and here he is, he's got a business, been in business a long
time A perfect business

EASTER: Where's he from

TURNBULL: Dryden, Ontario. And you know sir, that that, as an old timer
who's gone beyond, who's used up my years, I feel for that, because
those are the kind of people who are hurting, not me.

EASTER: so uh so uh there's no question

TURNBULL: You should stand, sir, you should stand in the house, you
should stand in the house and you should make somebody apologize for the
dastardly acts that are going on there regarding the firearms act. And I'd like
to conclude this by thanking you for your time, because you've been really
great with it. I want to add one more thing, we're going to Toronto
even if the people are dropping from SARS like fleas, we're going to Toronto

EASTER: No, I saw, and I'll just tell you this on SARS, because this
SARS thing is blown out of all proportion, I got a son in Toronto, and he
was home here and my daughter got married 2 weeks ago or 3, and of course
everybody around here asked him , aren't you afraid in Toronto, well
the SARS thing is only in the hospitals, that's the only place, you got no
fear in the streets of Toronto, but man, jeeze is it hurting and it's
hurting us here too

TURNBULL: One other thing, I'm a cattleman. I'm a cattleman and I want
you to get the border open.

EASTER: I met with Ashcroft on Monday

TURNBULL: We read about it

EASTER: anyway sorry

HUDSON: Jim, if you'll allow to correct me. We're finishing the two
eastern provinces, we're going back to Ottawa, not Toronto. We are
going in the government's fact until we are either in jail or in court or this
law is changed.
Now, that is the message from me, personally. Al Muir will say it as
well as he can as a Maritimer much more moderate language than I. We are not
backing off until this law is changed. If you keep licensing, if you
keep registration, put me in jail today and let me start serving my 10
years, because I'm going to jail over licensing, I'm going to jail over
registration, so let me start my time. Ten years of my life has been
wasted writing letters. I am fighting this to the hilt, peacefully and
non-violently and I conclude and we'll leave.